The below exchange is in relation to a posting by Dyson in reply to "TerraX" on the Dr. Michael Salla's "prepare4contact" page, and includes material deemed too legally sensitive for publication there, plus some dialog with Doctor Salla about the need for diplomacy in general and this matter in particular.Unanswered questions have been put into red.
From: "Dr Michael Salla" <exopolitics@yahoo.com>
Date:Friday, 17 February 2006 11:08 AM
To: "Dyson Alfred Devine" <gaiaguys@gaiaguys.net>
Subject: Re: Dyson answers TerraX's 18675 posting
Attachments: (none)
Dyson, it's clear from the post below that you and TerraX have had very strong interactions on other forums that had become very personal. I think it wise that you don't simply continue these here on p4c since that will inevitably lead to an escalating confrontation with TerraX that gets increasingly personal and where you will eventually come under moderation. TerraX is a forum moderator and I will certainly support him if he feels your posts have become personal
attacks on him. I highly recommend that you maintain a diplomatic approach, despite your aversion to diplomacy, and simply take this as an opportunity to state your point of view to others on the list who don't know about you. Stick to the issues and refrain from personal
attacks such as TerraX chosing to use a pseduonym which he has his own valid reasons for, even if he chooses not to fully disclose these.
Ultimately, people will make their own choices about who is or isn't closer to the truth, and heated language and personal attacks will only turn many people off. One of the reasons the forum has grown so large is that participants prefer the more diplomatic courteous style
of communication that I encourage, and enforce when necessary.
There is one thing though that I can't allow on the forum, and that is for you to be too explicit in the paedophile allegations against Australian politicians. That can lead to Yahoo banning the list and I will not allow any member to post material that could lead to such
action. For that reason, I may have to remove post:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/prepare4contact/message/18711 where you make the following statement which may be libelous:
"You demand of me that I prove that the most powerful politician in the state of Victoria rapes little children in the back of his VIP helicopter? Have I passed completely through the looking glass yet, Mr. X? This is starting to make my head reel."
In peace
Michael
From: "Dr Michael Salla" <exopolitics@yahoo.com>
Date:Friday, 17 February 2006 11:12 AM
To: "Dyson Alfred Devine" <gaiaguys@gaiaguys.net>
Subject: Re: Dyson answers TerraX's 18675 posting
Attachments: (none)
Dyson, after further consultation, I've decided to remove this post due to libelous statement you make against a prominent Victorian politician for reasons I explained in my other email.
Aloha, Michael(gaiaguys' note: a country's most powerful politicians customarily do not sue individuals for defamation)
--- In prepare4contact@yahoogroups.com , "Dyson Alfred Devine" <gaiaguys@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear TerraX,(my replies as “--->”)
>
> Thank you very much for your personal disclosure about your lack of
> allegiances. Given that you seemingly insist on anonymity while being
> one of the most vocal critics in the whole world of that which is
> also anathema to The Establishment, I'm sure you can understand the
> source of my concern. You hypocritically assert, "I am my own man and
> stand my own ground. I take full responsibility for my own actions
> and they are mine alone." Whose?
TX: My own and what's hypocritical about that?
--->Since you ask, “full” responsibility naturally means just that, and
using assumed names is clearly not taking responsibility for your actions.
Who gets the credit or the blame for TerraX/Terrarubicon? I mean which
individual human being when the judgment comes, as come it surely will
to us all? You can call yourself Marie of Romania or Mr. Mystery Man
if you like, but you can’t do it and validly assert that you are taking
full responsibility. The fact that this glaringly obvious truth even
has to be voiced to you leaves me groping for words.
> Why are you shirking your
> responsibility for your words by hiding behind your
> pseudonyms "TerraX" and "Terrarubicon"?
TX: Is it a crime to use a nickname? I think not.
--->Only when it involves fraud. Hypocrisy is not a criminal offence.
I prefer some anonimity, especially when dealing
with characters who do spiteful acts like putting
private addresses on public websites and private
email correspondence.
--->Can you see that if you did not demand anonymity, this fear
would not arise in you?
People I trust know me
real name.
> You know who I am. Words are
> leaves, brother. Acts are fruit. Who are you exactly?
TX: I'm TerraX. :-)
--->Am I meant to laugh or cry at this? Is this all you are?
Two aliases on the Internet? This is not much of a man.
These are assumed names behind which a poor soul hides like a
frightened bully. I don’t mean to be offensive to you, Mr X,
but there is another immutable law you may have heard of.
You can’t have it both ways.
> I know that
> there are a lot of people who want to know the answer to that
> question and, may I ask what exactly you so are afraid of?
TX: Well there are some revengeful characters on the internet
and I am aware that I shake the tree from time to time. It's
just a precaution. That you say that a lot of people want to
know who I am indicates that I'm making an impression.
Who am I? If you pay attention to what I write then it should
become clear. What a person writes displays personality,
character and psyche in general. I thought you would have
figured that out by now.
--->Please see above, and please stop the ugly sarcasm. I don’t
think anyone here wants more of that. Do you want the
extraterrestrials with whom you and the rest of this Yahoo list
are preparing for contact to read this childishness?
> And how
> did you land the job of the p4c moderator?
TX: Actually I debated with Michael Salla for a while and
I think a kind of mutual respect evolved. Later on he asked
me to become a moderator here. I'm also a moderator at
James Gilliland's board ECETI. I work well with people who
are constructive to ufology as a whole.
> With the greatest of charity, clearly, nothing I've either written
> here or – more importantly – demonstrated with my public work, is
> apparently being logically understood by you, as you continue to
> write about my beliefs, as opposed to my understanding. All anyone
> can do, like a broken record, is reiterate again and again that
> unless and until you do your own logical research, it is simply wrong
> to reach the conclusions you have. May I ask what of the Meier
> material you have at least read in the English language, which has
> led you to your false conclusions?
TX: Oh the book thing again with the super-imposed verdict.
Doesn't matter how I answer because it wont be enough in
your opinion.
---> “ … the book thing again…”? I am merely unproductively
attempting to discover what you have studied which has led you
to your erroneous conclusions which are the polar opposite
of the facts as provided by the available logical evidence.
But you have answered my question well enough, thank you.
You can always point out which FIGU info that
I use is basicly incorrect, but you don't do that often. You
stick to the conclusion.
--->I’m sorry, X, but I’m really not with you here. Could you
please re-phrase those two statements for me? Thanks.
> You write, "TX: Ok Dyson. If you state `don't take Meier's word for
> it' then that settles it and further discussion is pointless."
> Try as I might, "TerraX", and with the best will in the world, I'm
> really struggling to take this remark of yours seriously. Please try
> to understand that this delineates the distinction between 1.) blind
> faith/belief (to which we are adamantly opposed) and 2.) a logical
> understanding supported by objective stochastic reasoning based on an
> adequate study of the available material. And I mean all the material
> available from all sources, not merely all the thousands and
> thousands of [pages of] logically consistent and unearthly brilliant information
> and guidance provided by the one formal amalgamated extraterrestrial
> human Earth contact initiative as revealed in exquisite detail by
> FIGU for anybody who has what it takes to inform themselves
> adequately about it and thus profit from it. But don't take my word
> for it, please. You have to do your own research and reach your own
> conclusions; in that order.
> "I was just enquiring if there's any solid information concerning the
> Giza Intelligences."
> And I was quixotically trying to tell you that it is all around, once
> the scales fall from one's eyes or one gets one's head out of the
> sand. How exactly do you explain the Great Pyramid and the
> motto, "Order through Chaos" on your dollar bill? And Bush and Gore
> (et al) in the Skull and Bones? How exactly do you explain how the
> former Young Victorian of the Year and then Young Australian of the
> Year can be told by the senior investigator with the Victorian
> Police's Office of Police Integrity, in an official interview
> transcript, "What I would hope that we can achieve is possibly
> nothing in relation to that past [pedophile] ring, even if it is
> still operating" And how do you explain that the same corporate media
> who ridicules the concept of extraterrestrials completely ignored
> that revelation in Doctor Michaleson's well-attended public media
> conference? There are not rhetorical questions, "TerraX". I'd really
> like to know your views on this, as I'm sure would many others
> reading this.
TX: The all encompasing conspiracy theory will probably take
a week of writing.
--->Are you deliberately wasting my time, Mr. X? Theory? Are you serious?
And have you read nothing I’ve already written to you in reply to these
same demands you make of me? Please see above.
Maybe you can cut it down in portions and
show how they are connected in each stage.
--->Please see above.
Please understand
that I don't mock allegations of child abuse.
--->You most certainly do on that thread about me you started on your
Above Top Secret list. [http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread187745/pg1]
These are serious
charges and need to be investigated thoroughly and properly.
--->And when they are most demonstrably not – I repeat – not
investigated at all, and those responsible – with absolutely
breathtaking temerity - even say publicly that they will not
– I repeat – will not be investigated, your response is to say
that I accuse, but do not prove. Have you read anything Doctor
Michaelson and others have revealed? www.gaiaguys.net/victoria.htm
Are you unaware that evidence of criminal activity is customarily
provided to the police, (if they don’t detect it first) who then
traditionally investigate this evidence to see if it is sufficiently
substantial to lay charges? And don’t you understand that then the
convention is that these charges are proven or disproved in a court
of law? You demand of me that I prove that the most powerful
politician in the state of Victoria rapes little children in the
back of his VIP helicopter? Have I passed completely through the
looking glass yet, Mr. X? This is starting to make my head reel.
> Similarly, I'm very curious as to why you are such a devoted
> supporter of an semi-occult organization which very openly scorns
> democracy in favor of an aristocracy, insists that all children must
> be exposed to all aspects of adult sexuality at the earliest of ages,
> espouses necrophilia, contends that, "We have nothing with the
> outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel
> not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the
> weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of
> the world.", and publicly identifies itself with a logo depicting an
> erect male phallus and the numeral 666? Hmmm?
TX: Secret societies when not clearly relating to the topics
ETs and UFOs are not really discussed on this board.
--->If the connections are still not clear to you, X, it is due to
you being unwilling to do what you have to do to make them clear. I
can heap your plate high with the food you demand of me, but I
cannot chew and swallow your food for you.
And as
to your allegation that I'm a "devoted supporter of an semi-
occult (evil) organization" is downright slanderous.
--->Please see above comment about your ATS thread. Sue me.
Just the
sort of comment I aspect from a nasty individual who has
to pay 30.000 bucks for doing similar allegations but still
doesn't realise what he did wrong.
--->Now this is a very serious question that I really think deserves
a considered answer from you: Given all that is available for logical
scrutiny about this defamation action by this (“ET” initiated)
corporation/religion, do you really think that Doctor Michaelson,
Vivienne and I have really done the wrong?
Let me spell it out for
you: YOU ACCUSE, YOU DON'T PROVE.
--->As above, X.
> And for that matter, how do you explain the erosion of the Sphinx?
> It's not an unrelated matter.
TX: Scholars are still in heavy debate over that. Some
offer the intriquing theory that water is responsible for
the erosion.
--->There is no debate among geologists. Like chemtrails, the WTC
massacre and the whole ET cover-up, the truth hides in plain sight.
Have I made my point?
> You write, "When it boils down to taking someones word for it then
> it's a 'free-will' matter. Then you can take it or leave it."
> Sorry. You've really lost me here. Could you please let us know what
> is not a matter of free will?
TX: Gravity, speed of light, those sorts of things.
--->I’m sorry. What is your point here please?
> You write, "It is a little disappointing though, I was hoping there
> was more then 'believing it'."
> Happily, your disappointment is entirely misplaced. Please see above.
> You continue, "When you have the time and energy, you must explain
> it sometime how it connects from bad ETs to secret societies, to
> people in the government and so on. But that's a big topic I suspect,
> perhaps best for another time."
> Sure. The rise and fall of the Roman empire in twenty-five words or
> less. Again, no explanation anyone could provide in this narrow venue
> here could possibly be adequate, but I do certainly invite you to
> (again) do your own logical research and reach your own conclusions
> based on logic – in that sequence. A lot of what we have on have on
> our website may assist you if you are prepared to make the required
> effort. It is not for no reason that we count our daily hits in
> millions, and receive a steadily growing stream of grateful email
> from others who have used our pointers (not our "speculation") to
> discover the horrific truth for themselves, and to allow its power to
> become theirs.
> It strikes me that what you demand of me is analogous to a person
> entering a doctor's office with a whole constellation of
> serious health problems caused by a completely sedentary life style,
> a woefully inadequate diet, a chain-smoking habit, alcoholism and
> morbid obesity, but simply demanding of his doctor one simple pill
> that will instantly cure him of all his various self-induced life-
> threatening ailments. Reality is just not like that and you know it,
> so please stop trying to pretend otherwise. And it has been explained
> repeatedly that in this formal ET contact initiative by people that
> make us all look like silly chimps in comparison, there are many very
> shrewd and very loving procedures set in place which actually
> encourage those who can't handle the truth – for whatever reason – to
> see it all as lies, interference, smokescreens, etc., etc. etc. Get
> it?
TX: It strikes me that you have made your own theory
which you deem valid, therefor no further explanation
is needed.
--->This is not my theory. This is reality. You will see it if you look,
but not if you don’t.
If these ETs are so smart and we are so 'chimp
like' then why did every attempt at starting the Creational
Teachings through the lineage of Prophets fail?
--->Because we are so chimp-like. Do you give up trying to toilet-train
a retarded child if you really love this child and s/he is making slow
but steady progress? You keep working at it until you eventually succeed.
More to the point, these ETs have a cosmically long time frame and all
that has been done by the falsifiers of the distant past is now coming
back to condemn them in the 21st Century. This is also part of the plan
and past “failures” cannot accurately be seen entirely in that light.
Don’t forget that when you master space, you have also mastered time.
I’m quite surprised that you’ve not taken the chance to mock Meier’s
evidence in this (time travel) regard too.
Tough question, I know.
--->These are not tough questions at all if one is familiar with the available material.
Probably those you like to avoid.
--->Quite the contrary. This should be another apparent reason why
I accepted Dr. Salla’s invitation to join you here. I require challenges
to grow. My challenge here is remaining so diplomatic. The ET people I
relate to are very robust and despise diplomacy.
Asking questions increases our knowledge.
--->Of course I agree, but I think that getting your head down and reading
the answers already provided is even better. You also have to know which
questions to ask, and of whom. And you left out some steps. You then
have to go away and think quietly and carefully about everything in a
logical manner, process it internally, and only then start drawing your
own conclusions.
I'm finished for now.
--->Thank you. I joyously await your responses, Mr. X.
G'day Mate.
--->X, this is a traditional Australian greeting, not a parting salutation.
--->And I am not your mate, either. You are my brother, but we are certainly not mates.
--->Fraternally,
--->Dyson
> Psychic freedom, a logical extrapolation of the United Nations
> Code of Human Rights.
> Moving on … well then, let's politely disagree about the
> impossibility of someone being both a liar and a pawn concurrently.
> OK? I won't ask you to explain your logic.
> You continue, "You seem to be forgetting something. You proceed on the
> basis that part of the agenda is to protect the psyche of people. In
> other words avoid unnecessary friction."
> No. Not at all. You have a 180 degree misunderstanding about this.
> Psychic freedom has nothing to do with lack of friction. Quite the
> contrary, in spite of the alien concept. If people are enslaved by
> false religious dogma, they can only win their psychic freedom
> through a degree if initial friction. As was said by a great man some
> two thousand years ago, "Do not think that I have come to bring peace
> on Earth. Truly, I have not come to bring peace, but the sword of
> knowledge about the power of the spirit, which dwells within the
> human being. For I have come to bring wisdom and knowledge and to
> provoke mankind: son against his father, daughter against her mother,
> daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, servant against master,
> citizen against government and believer against preacher. The
> people's enemies will be their own housemates. The path of truth is
> long and the wisdom of knowledge will only penetrate slowly."
> Were you to do your homework this would not be news to you, and you
> would stop equating a high level of spiritual evolution with effete
> court etiquette and oily words.
> You continue, "Simply put the Meier case reeps what it sows.
> Causality, cause and effect."
>
> Yes, indeed it does, and nobody could be more delighted than me that
> this is the case. As has been explained over and over and over and
> over again in the material that you have not studied, it is just
> exactly this dogmatic opposition which is almost solely responsible
> for individuals like me, Michael Horn and Jim Deardorff, who accept
> their difficult responsibility, to selflessly jump to the defense of
> the truth when it is attacked. Please permit me to briefly quote
> Meier's primary ET contact from the 70s & 80s. "…when the human
> identifies himself with everything in the universe, no hate and no
> greed may dwell within him anymore, because he makes no more selfish
> differences. He has just become one with the essence in everything.
> Other people may claim something as their exclusive property, but he
> who thinks spiritually identifies it with the truth within and,
> therefore, owns everything internally. All fright has left him, while
> he identifies himself with the truth. This truth of Creation and of
> the spirit, with which he is one, even directs his enemy's hand that
> will rise against him, in such a way that it falls back to (the
> enemy) himself. The spiritual one is protected and sheltered, and the
> whole nature is well-disposed toward him, and yes, even his enemies
> have to serve him in the end. With their attacks, they cause the
> spiritual within him to unfold to even greater strength and power and
> to overcome all that is evil, vile and degenerated. Ultimately, the
> enemies only contribute to the recognition of the truth and growth of
> those who think spiritually. They wish evil, troubles and bad things
> to those who think spiritually; they are of the opinion that they
> could destroy them through critique, know-it-all manner, lies and
> defamation, through complaints and false teachings, through
> condemning and making a fool of him; however, they only cause damage
> to themselves, because their acting gives testimony of intellectual
> foolishness and ignorance, from which he who thinks spiritually
> learns even more and becomes even greater and more powerful in his
> spirit and consciousness. Are such truths perhaps suggestions? To
> claim this would be a delusion, because it is false. It deals here
> with absolute truths."
>
> But the truth is a powerful elemental force not without its own
> defenses. I speak from ample personal experience, as detailed on our
> website. You might ask yourself why the assassin's bullet with my
> name on it entered the back of the skull of the wrong man in 1997,
> and I wonder if anyone ever contemplates why there have been no fewer
> than 21 documented assassination attempts against Billy Meier, and –
> much more significantly – why they all failed.
>
> Of course feel free to not believe any of this. Please.
>
> And with a slightly amused reference to those days when my rebuttals
> of your sophistry did indeed become heated, I stand as a living
> example of how the truth can provide positive changes, even in an old
> fighter like me in my 50s.
>
> Incidentally, your glib comment elsewhere, "Not the P's of course who
> speak German to begin with and spoke favourably of Hitler." This is a
> very very evil 180 degree distortion of the undisputable facts, and
> brushes aside the fact that many of Meier's would-be assassins were
> Nazis, and a great deal of what Billy has to say is relentlessly anti-
> Nazi. Please inform yourself. And please learn why the English
> language is being deliberately eschewed. Please do try in the future
> to avoid dangerous comments off the top of your head, and try to make
> them from somewhere within it. Thank you.
>
> I honestly hope this has been of some use to you, TerraX, and that my
> responses can be received in the loving spirit in which they are
> delivered, in spite of my probable inability to craft them into
> adequately diplomatic phraseology for you.
>
> Peace in wisdom,
> Dyson
From: Untitled
To: exopolitics@yahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Dyson answers TerraX's 18675 posting
Oh, Michael, I am really sorry about that, and I don't blame you for censoring that imprudent remark. As soon as I hit the send button I realized that I'd done something foolish, and even posing it as a question as opposed to a declarative sentence would not be necessarily adequate to protect Yahoo, even though word has reached us that no attempts will be made against gaiaguys.net for much worse about these men.
I also apologize for my diplomatic inadequacy in reply to terraX/terrarubicon's sophistry, sarcasm and personal attacks against me. I hope you can see how hard I was trying to be loyal to the truth but still with as much soft soap as I could possibly muster. It's true that TerraX and I did lock horns on a Meier-supporter Yahoo list called Plejarans are Real some years ago, where he posed as a Meier supporter for a very long tome and was a very vulgar and disruptive influence (not to mention an enormous waist of my time) until he was eventually unmasked as an agent provocateur, along with "Linda Williams" a.k.a. Vogelfire, and they were both thrown off the list. But if you read what I wrote, you'll see that I have reformed, and I can assure you that there will be absolutely no escalation of tensions from my side of the situation. I try to fight fire with water these days. But I cannot in good conscience allow his dreadful distortions of the facts, of which he refuses to inform himself, remain unchallenged. Why does he do this? Did you read what he wrote about me on the thread he started on the ATS site? Very ugly stuff.
Given the above, and the considered replies I gave to TX's many questions, and the broader areas also covered on the deleted email, do you think it might be possible to re-post it with the legally offensive areas simply redacted?
I promise to be much more careful, Michael, and I'm sorry that I inadvertently abused your hospitality.
Shalom,
Dyson
From: "Exopolitics" <exopolitics@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:51 PM
To: gaiaguys@gaiaguys.net
Subject: Re: Dyson answers TerraX's 18675 posting
Hello Dyson, thank you for acknowledging that we need to observe some restraint as a public forum hosted by Yahoo in terms of what may be libelous claims against individuals that can cause Yahoo to close down the group. It has happened before to similar forums and Yahoo moves quickly without fully explaining its reasons so I am very mindful of that experience.
As for TerraX, it is clear that your past history with him can easily lead to an escalation of personal attacks as you have described occurred on the ATS forum. These need to be eliminated as far as possible from the p4c forum while you of course are both free to debate ideas and positions. To help clarify, I construe a personal attack as wilful comments against a person's character, integrity and motivations rather than simply raising questions about these or addressing the content of their ideas. I would recommend that you merely use the forum as an opportunity to simply present your ideas and discuss these with others who might be interested rather than continuing a very public debate with TerraX that has occurred on other forums. There are many issues constantly being discussed and you will find ample opportunity to express your positions.
As for editing out the 'libelous' portions of your response to TerraX and resubmitting it, I would recommend that you consider what would be achieved by reposting a message that begins with passages that are direct personal attacks on TerraX in terms of him "being his own man" and choosing to use a pseudonym. That is the kind of personal interaction that is a distraction to other members since there aren't substantive issues involved.
I can see you are making a great effort to stay diplomatic and I applaud you for that. You will find that one can be very effective in sticking to substantive ideas in communicating their position without straying into personal attacks that lead to escalation. That can be a distraction to others who sincerely want to learn about the issues and aren't too familiar with different contactee and UFO cases.
Finally, please keep in mind that TerraX is a forum moderator and has some discretionary power to deal with what he perceives to be personal attacks either against him or others. So I do encourage you to simply make your substantive points and move on to other issues rather than getting into a prolonged debate with him over personal issues that you have not resolved on other forums. In such cases, it may be better to discuss these with him privately.
Aloha, Michael
From:
Date:Sunday, 19 February 2006 7:55 PM
To:
<exopolitics@yahoo.com>
Subject:Re: Dyson answers TerraX's 18675 posting
Attachments:(none)
Dear Michael,
Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to deal with this situation. I greatly appreciate it. I won't try to prolong this effort by entering into a debate, but please allow me to try to clear up a couple of misconceptions I've inadvertently left you with about my history with TerraX. I will insert my clarifications with my initials.
MS: Hello Dyson, thank you for acknowledging that we need to observe some restraint as a public forum hosted by Yahoo in terms of what may be libelous claims against individuals that can cause Yahoo to close down the group. It has happened before to similar forums and Yahoo moves quickly without fully explaining its reasons so I am very mindful of that experience.
As for TerraX, it is clear that your past history with him can easily lead to an escalation of personal attacks as you have described occurred on the ATS forum.
DD: The discussion thread that Terrarubicon instigated on the Above Top Secret list about me has been progressing without me, because - for mysterious technical reasons - I am unable to make contributions to it, nor defend myself from his calumny in that venue. His snide personal attacks on my character, motives and morality flourish there unhindered and undiminished. You may be aware that this list was evidently exposed as a government COINTELPRO last month, but that is another story which need not concern either of us now. (The quality of the contributions - being almost exclusively in ferocious support of the self-described child-sacrificers speaks very clearly for itself.) Likewise, if I recall correctly, the altercations in the past the other Meier defenders and I had on our Plejarans are Real Yahoo list never ever dealt with TerraX's need for anonymity. That was never an issue. What was at issue was his continual insertions of disinformation - a lot of it quite vile like his recent assertion that the Plejaren spoke "favorably" about Hitler(!) was covered in exquisite detail. For the record the Plejaren - rightly, I think - described Hitler as an "evil genius", but of course TerraX/Terrarubicon omitted the word "evil" from this description with understandable results. This is particularly galling because the facts about what these extraterrestrials actually said remains largely hidden from scrutiny by people who do not read the German language, or have to rely on Wendelle Steven's inaccurate (with undisclosed omissions of words, phrases, and sentences) and very religiously-slanted English translations. A large portion of what my partner Vivienne and I are now trying to do is put out these fires which spread otherwise deep into the English-speaking world, and thus further hinder Earth's spiritual progress. Given that by TerraX/Terrarubucon's own tacit admission, he has not even studied this much of the available material on the Meier case, his erroneous (but consistently negative) conclusions demand an honest challenge.
MS: These need to be eliminated as far as possible from the p4c forum while you of course are both free to debate ideas and positions. To help clarify, I construe a personal attack as wilful comments against a person's character, integrity and motivations rather than simply raising questions about these or addressing the content of their ideas.
DD: I accept this and concur, but I hope that your moderator can also refrain from his snide sarcasm. Of course the issue is more than merely personal, because - as I hope you know by now, Michael - one of the primary messages that the Plejaren Federation has for us is the need for us all - at a very personal and individual level - to take full responsibility for every one of our thoughts, words and deeds. I am sure you can see the irony and hypocrisy in a man or woman like TerraX/Terrarubicon who insists on secrecy and commensurate inscrutability while confidently asserting that he or she is taking full responsibility for his or her work. How can I express this more diplomatically without making my own important point look like underhanded and sneaky back-biting at a personal level if I try to distance it from the source of the dilemma? As previously mentioned, the simple positions that I wish to defend are confused by my inability to nuance, to use your verb, these data adequately without then emasculating then of their simple meaning.
MS: I would recommend that you merely use the forum as an opportunity to simply present your ideas and discuss these with others who might be interested rather than continuing a very public debate with TerraX that has occurred on other forums. There are many issues constantly being discussed and you will find ample opportunity to express your positions.
DD: As above, I can certainly express "my ideas" and "my positions", but what I am actually there for is to learn from other experiencers what their positions are, and try to use my unique (in the English-speaking world) position as an expert (by default) to convey the positions of the Plejaren Federation, not mine. You may be aware that the English-language material (as incorrect and misleading as the Stevens' translations are), which includes the official FIGU translations, still represents only a very very small percentage of the published literature which no other similarly publicly active English-speaking FIGU supporter has read. You may be unaware that this enormous cornucopia of German-language material available for public consuption is also mirrored with a corresponding quantity of material called "Die Lehre des Geistes" (The Lessons of the Spirit) which will never be made public or translated and is available only to members of FUGU. Likewise, Randolph Winters actively turned against FIGU and has poisoned the truth with audacious lies about the nature of the organization on his DVDs, now, according to you, enjoying widespread distribution on hundreds of US cable TV stations. Nothing less could be expected in a situation where Herr Meier has suffered so many attempts on his life for reasons which become fully apparent only after the German-language material is studied.
MS: As for editing out the 'libelous' portions of your response to TerraX and resubmitting it, I would recommend that you consider what would be achieved by reposting a message that begins with passages that are direct personal attacks on TerraX in terms of him "being his own man" and choosing to use a pseudonym. That is the kind of personal interaction that is a distraction to other members since there aren't substantive issues involved.
DD: I accept this with my above qualifications, and understand the difficult position I've put you in and will go back and try to deal with the substance of the issues raised in a more acceptable way.
MS: I can see you are making a great effort to stay diplomatic and I applaud you for that.
DD: Thank you most sincerely for this acknowledgement of my struggle. I must say that I have been so immersed in these wonderful renewed teachings that my weltanschauung has metamorphosed over the last few years to the point where Earth diplomacy is not comfortable for me any more, and my recognition for the dire need for the harsh truth has colored my personal interactions with those who demonstrate themselves to be covert opponents. This metamorphosis seems to be the case with everyone else with whom I've communicated about their experiences with these data, so my tactful skills in this respect have been left to become blunt. Please empathize.
MS: You will find that one can be very effective in sticking to substantive ideas in communicating their position without straying into personal attacks that lead to escalation. That can be a distraction to others who sincerely want to learn about the issues and aren't too familiar with different contactee and UFO cases.
DD: Thank you for your valuable advice, which I will try harder to implement, instead of attempting to use the direct example given to me by my correspondent. I have much to learn about how to deal acceptably with these essentially political issues, and your list members and you yourself also have much to learn about the "alien" manner in which highly advanced ET humans operate. Please excuse my bluntness at this juncture, Michael, and please try to understand that I do not mean it as a personal affront against you, sir, or your supporters - merely as the unvarnishable truth.
MS: Finally, please keep in mind that TerraX is a forum moderator and has some discretionary power to deal with what he perceives to be personal attacks either against him or others. So I do encourage you to simply make your substantive points and move on to other issues rather than getting into a prolonged debate with him over personal issues that you have not resolved on other forums. In such cases, it may be better to discuss these with him privately.
DD: As above, Michael, the heated confrontations TerraX/Terrarubicon and I (and others) on the PAR list (before his duplicitous role there was fully grasped, and he and "Vogelfire" were removed) were not so much personal - as I've always tried to keep the focus on the message as opposed to the messenger - they were in reply to his very apparent disinformation tactics (similar to his current work on his ATS thread about me) in relation to material about which he is grotesquely under-qualified to reach valid and logical conclusions due to his ignorance of the material available to him.
I'm sorry to have been so longwinded, but please just let me take this opportunity to thank you again for your forbearance with this somewhat delicate set of circumstances I find myself in.
MS: Aloha, Michael
DD: Peace in wisdom,
Dyson
From: "Dr Michael Salla" <exopolitics@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:36 AM
To: "Dyson Alfred Devine" <gaiaguys@gaiaguys.net>
Subject: Re: Daniel Fry continued
Hello Dyson, I think you are doing very well in diplomatically putting
forward your case here. That will earn you friends on the forum.
Aloha, Michael
--- In prepare4contact@yahoogroups.com, "Dyson Alfred Devine"
wrote:
>
> Hi TerraX (and sorry about me touching on the untouchables in my last
> deleted posting ... I'll return to that one when I have more free
> time.)
>
> I reached the conclusions I did about Dan Fry the same way I reach
> all my conclusions: first through exhaustive and methodical logical
> scrutiny, followed by lengthy internal processing in quiet pensive
> thought.
>
> The Plejaren are not debunking it. They are supporting it.
>
> In so far as I am aware, I've read everything that has been
> published, and - as I said - found it very valuable and quite
> fascinating, but rather too simplistic and patronizing compared to
> the astonishing Plejaren effort, not to mention quantitatively very
> stingy. Have you also read all of the Dan Fry material? What did you
> think of it?
>
> "UNDERSTANDING" That's what it's all about. Don't you agree?
>
> Cheers!
> Dyson
>
> --- In prepare4contact@yahoogroups.com, "terrarubicon"
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear D,
> >
> > > And if Billy doesn't say who falsified Fry's photos are you
> incapable
> > > of coming to the obvious conclusion yourself?
> >
> > Is it a given fact that Fry's photo's were manipulated?
> > You apparently already made that conclusion. I haven't
> > seen Fry comment on it himself or any of his associates.
> > I don't proceed on the basis that all his photographic
> > material was falsified. Do you?
> >
> > > Who is doing all this
> > > obvious falsification of genuine ET contact material, in your
> > > opinion, if not those now in power with the most to lose?
> >
> > In the case of Fry I haven't detected any obvious falsifications.
> > The guy passed away in 1992, surely he would have detected
> > any grave alterations in his own material which started in 1954.
> > Read this and see what the guy has done for ufology;
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Fry
> >
> > Recognise a few similarities between Fry and the Meier case?
> > Are Meier's comments really that 'cut&dry'? I think not.
> >
> > > Your ferocious hostility towards something you know so little
> about,
> > > and refuse to study, is misplaced to the point of being dangerous
> to
> > > you.
> > > Shalom,
> > > Dyson
> >
> > You seem to have made your mind up already and rather
> > then to investigate Meier's comments by studying the
> > topic at hand, you defend Meier's conclusion. What did
> > you know about Fry? Very little, that's my impression.
> > Perhaps it is you who needs to study the topics Meier
> > discusses before reaching (premature) conclusions.
> > I believe it's called homework, something I heard on
> > many occasions from people like you.
> >
> > Regards,
> > TerraX
> >
>
From: gaiaguys.net <gaiaguys@gaiaguys.net>
Date:Tuesday, 21 February 2006 6:46 PM
To: <exopolitics@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Daniel Fry continued
Attachments: (none)
Dear Michael,
Thank you very much for your kind words.
Of course I needn't tell you that diplomacy is just another skill which sharpens with use. :-)
But I'm not trying to win any popularity contests, nor are Billy and the Plejaren. Quite the contrary. The truth can only work as intended when left unvarnished, in my view, and the view of billions of (ET) others, and is being delivered again now, after 2000 dark years, specifically and initially for a very small percentage of Earth humans, with its intrinsic bluntness deliberately left in it that (as a side effect) personally offends the great majority of our world's people. I know how heterodox that sounds, Michael, but - as I've often said - what else could we expect from people from another planet?
They never could have enjoyed 50,000 years of unbroken peace and prosperity had they behaved like Earthlings.
I thank you again for your empathy, forbearance and understanding of my slightly awkward position on your Yahoo list.
Salome*
Dyson
*traditional ancient Lyran salutation of the Plejaren Federation and their terrestrial associates. Aloha or Shalom are the closest Earth-language equivalents
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