Difference between revisions of "Talk:Contact Report 130"

From Future Of Mankind
(Comment provided by Benjamin Stevens - via ArticleComments extension)
(Comment provided by Hawaiian - via ArticleComments extension)
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--[[User:Benjamin|βενιαμιν]] 14:04, 20 July 2012 (BST)
--[[User:Benjamin|βενιαμιν]] 14:04, 20 July 2012 (BST)
== Hawaiian said ... ==
<div class='commentBlock'>
You are correct in the assumption that German speaking people only represents 1.5% of the world's population and within this group, only a small percentage can truely grasp BEAM's writings because he added a significant amount of new German words because this language is also lacking in expressing the full potentials of this mission.
So in other words, it will take an English speaker a significant amount of time and effort to just utilize the  basic German language must more in learning its true value in applying BEAM's materials.
There is a saying that a half full container is better than an empty one. There is some value in the English translation and the Plejarens have been known to be over bearing and unreasonable, so I would not agree on their accessment
--[[User:Barbarian216|Hawaiian]] 17:09, 20 July 2012 (BST)

Revision as of 16:09, 20 July 2012

Comments on Contact Report 130 <comments />

Markvd said ...

It's interesting that the sun has similar layers as Earth like the Ionosphere and Troposhpere. I'm guessing that all planetary bodies have such consistency throughout thus giving us even more insight into how things might work. :) It's obvious neither the good or bad space dwellers want to make contact with any human directly at this time due to there unnatural processes of thinking. In time if they choose the path of develeopment and knowledge for all of Earth they might get there first encounter....................

--Markvd 20:27, 5 July 2012 (BST)

Alive said ...

I welcome Benjamin Steven's decision to translate "Vernunft" in the context of Contact Report 130 as "rationality", a mental ability dealing with reasoning. I guess the same word could be used as the translation of "Vernunft" in Contact Report 39. I found it interesting to scrutinize the word, since the topic of Verstand and Vernunft came from Sfath while he was mentoring mister Billy prior to the time travel, prior to the great journey, prior to the mission. It was something to be learnt by mister Billy before he saw amazing things in later years. To me personally the topic of Verstand and Vernunft is a good stuff for mental exercise, mental sport.

---- M -- 06:02, 7 July 2012 (BST)

Benjamin Stevens said ...

Yeah... I take a look at FIGU Dictionary a lot and many of the FIGU Dictionary-choices for English translations of particular words stick with me, which is why I now almost always translate that word as "rationality" instead of as "reason." I can't say that I always conform to FIGU Dictionary in such things, but I certainly do a lot more ever since I started looking at it. Unfortunately, it would take way too much time for me to go back to all my old translations and revise each and every word to FIGU Dictionary standards wherever appropriate, even if using a computer search function to do so. Thus, I don't know if I'll ever get around to doing that, even though such would be very profitable. However, if others look at the German and study the words closely as you did, then there's really no reason for me to do that, as they themselves can determine which English word might be best to use in each case.

--βενιαμιν 19:10, 10 July 2012 (BST)

Alive said ...

Do you mean FIGU Glossary? Like on http://futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU_-_related_terms ?

---- M -- 19:46, 10 July 2012 (BST)

RemR said ...


Pardon my interjection here, but Benjamin really did mean the actual FIGU Dictionary, as in http://dict.figu.org ...Otherwise he would not have said it four separate times in his above comment.

Many German words, when translated into todays English, lose their adequacy of conforming to the exact same idea. That is why the FIGU Dictionary exists - to at least half-salvage some of the integrity of the original meaning of the German word into a better English parallel, so that it is not completely distorted and bastardized by the typical English representative you might find in a normal German-to-English translation dictionary.

When I was at the SSSC, someone mentioned that Ptaah had one made the comment that English is barely even a language - that it is like a child's language.

--RemR 00:54, 11 July 2012 (BST)

Alive said ...

Thank you for the link, RemR. The dictionary could be useful for me in some situations. I can not comment Ptaah's comment on English, since I do not know the context of it.

---- M -- 05:42, 11 July 2012 (BST)

RemR said ...

I was speaking with someone at the Center in Switzerland and they said it was the 487th contact from 2/3/2010, which included a comment by Ptaah that English is not even a real language, but more of a child's language. That's all I know...

--RemR 18:31, 16 July 2012 (BST)

Alive said ...

Then like a little child I will wait for the translation of Contact Report 487.

---- M -- 06:58, 17 July 2012 (BST)

Benjamin Stevens said ...

Explanations by Ptaah and Billy regarding the German language

(487th contact of February 3, 2010)

Erklärungen von Ptaah und Billy bezüglich der deutschen Sprache

(487. Kontakt vom 3.2.2010)

Ptaah: We have really made the effort; we - the committee who deals with your affairs - came to the conclusion to get together with our linguists, to discuss everything with them and to get their advice.

Ptaah Wir haben uns tatsächlich bemüht; dabei sind wir, die wir ein Gremium bilden für eure Angelegenheiten, zum Schluss gekommen, uns mit unseren Sprachwissenschaftlern zusammenzutun, um mit ihnen alles zu besprechen und ihre Ratgebung einzuholen.

In doing so, we examined altogether all present translations that were made of the "Goblet of Truth" into English, as well as all the other small and large works that were translated into English and also into other terrestrial languages.

Dabei haben wir gesamthaft alle bisherigen Übersetzungen begutachtet, die vom «Kelch der Wahrheit» in die englische Sprache gemacht wurden, wie aber auch alle anderen kleinen und grossen Werke, die in die englische und auch in andere irdische Sprachen übersetzt wurden.

Unfortunately, everything turned out to be extremely inadequate because none of the translations from the German original texts correspond with them in a valuable way.

Leider erweist sich dabei das Ganze als äusserst unzureichend, denn keine der aus den deutschen Originaltexten gemachten Übersetzungen entsprechen diesen in wertvoller Weise.

Many times the real original sense is lost in the translations because the necessary accurate expressions, terms and words do not exist in the languages in question.

Vielfach ist der eigentliche Originalsinn in den Übersetzungen nicht gegeben, weil in den betreffenden Sprachen die notwendigen treffenden Ausdrücke, Begriffe und Worte nicht existieren.

Very often even synonyms don't exist that could be used as absolutely equal meaning of words and, therefore, could be exchanged or replaced in a text without changing the information being conveyed or its sense.

Sehr oft existieren nicht einmal Synonyme, die als absolut gleiche Bedeutung von Worten genutzt und so in einem Text ausgetauscht resp. ersetzt werden könnten, ohne dass sich dabei die Aussage oder deren Sinn verändert.

Countless terms and words that are given in the German language do not exist in all other terrestrial languages, and besides, the true sense and value of many terms and words are not correctly recognized, and, therefore, absolutely falsely interpreted.

Unzählige Begriffe und Worte, die in der deutschen Sprache gegeben sind, existieren in allen anderen irdischen Sprachen nicht, und ausserdem wird der wahre Sinne und Wert vieler Begriffe und Worte nicht richtig erkannt und folglich völlig falsch gedeutet.

On the one hand this occurs because the origin of terms and words is entirely unknown, or because a false origin is assumed, which is even the case with linguists of the German language, i.e. the Germanists, and which leads to fundamentally false presentations and explanations of terms and words.

Dies geschieht einerseits, weil der Ursprung der Begriffe und Worte völlig unbekannt ist, oder weil ein falscher Ursprung angenommen wird, und das selbst bei Sprachwissenschaftlern der deutschen Sprache, also bei den Germanisten, in Erscheinung tritt, was zu grundlegend falschen Ausführungen und Erklärungen von Begriffen und Worten führt.

According to all observations, examinations and analysis we have come to the unanimous decision that henceforward you from the Mother Center shall not make any further translations, also not into the English language.

Gemäss allen Betrachtungen, Abklärungen und Analysen sind wir zum einstimmigen Beschluss gelangt, dass ihr künftighin von eurer Seite des Mutter-Centers aus keinerlei Übersetzungen mehr durchführen sollt, auch nicht in die englische Sprache.

It (English) doesn't correspond to a true language, but only to a halfway acceptable auxiliary world-language that was disseminated world-wide through dishonest machinations from the USA with the aid of British English and other languages, whereby the deeper sense is to turn the terrestrial peoples into English-speaking ones, by using this meagre means of communication.

Diese entspricht keiner eigentlichen Sprache, sondern nur einer halbwegs annehmbaren Welthilfssprache, die durch unlautere Machenschaften von den USA aus mit Zuhilfenahme des britischen Englisch und anderer Sprachen weltweit verbreitet wurde, wobei der tiefere Sinn darin liegt, die irdischen Völker mit diesem ärmlichen Verständigungsmittel englischsprachig zu machen.

From our side, we recommend that you do not make any further translations when you have finished the work "Goblet of Truth" that unfortunately in the English language only contains inadequate translation values of all that which is laid down in the German language.

Von unserer Seite aus empfehlen wir also, dass von euch keine weiteren Übersetzungen mehr vorgenommen werden, wenn ihr das Werk «Kelch der Wahrheit» vollendet habt, das in der englischen Sprache leider nur mangelhafte Übersetzungswerte von all dem enthält, wie alles in der deutschen Sprache vorgegeben ist.

And all this, although the basic translation work is being done by a translation company.

Dies, obwohl die Grundarbeit der Übersetzung durch eine Fachkraft einer Übersetzungsfirma zustande kommt.

The whole can only then be of benefit and value to those who are learning and interested, if they make an effort to learn the German language extensively, in order to then turn towards the content of the spiritual-teaching works and to learn everything.

Das Ganze kann für die Lernenden und Interessierten nur dann von Nutzen und Wert sein, wenn sie sich bemühen, die deutsche Sprache in weitgehender Form zu erlernen, um sich durch diese dem Inhalt der Geisteslehrewerke zuzuwenden und alles zu erlernen.

Translations of the spiritual-teaching and all related works into other terrestrial languages only represent a poor reflection regarding the true sense, when such translations are made. ...

In allen anderen irdischen Sprachen bringen die entsprechenden Übersetzungen der Geisteslehre und aller diesbezüglichen Werke nur einen schwachen Abglanz in bezug auf deren wahrheitlichen Sinn, wenn solche Übersetzungen erstellt werden. ...

Billy: ...But since you are talking so clearly about terms and words, just as I often do so myself, it is perhaps necessary to explain those two values because I know that many German-speaking human beings, Germanists too, do not see any difference.

Billy ... Da du aber so eindeutig von Begriffen und Worten sprichst, wie auch ich das oft tue, so ist es vielleicht notwendig, diese zwei Werte einmal zu erklären, weil ich weiss, dass viele deutschsprachige Menschen, auch Germanisten, keinen Unterschied darin sehen.

So I would like to say that a term represents the content of an "idea", so to speak, which in its entirety forms an essential characteristic of an "intellectual" unity, from which a certain conception, an opinion, a picture and also an understanding result, which altogether can be expressed verbally or with the aid of the language, but also in writing.

So möchte ich sagen, dass es sich bei einem Begriff sozusagen um den Inhalt einer Vorstellung handelt, die als Gesamtheit ein wesentliches Merkmal einer gedanklichen Einheit bildet, woraus eine bestimmte Auffassung, eine Meinung, ein Bild und auch ein Verstehen resultieren, was gesamthaft verbal resp. mit Hilfe der Sprache, jedoch auch schriftlich zum Ausdruck gebracht werden kann.

The word, on the other hand, is a small or smallest independent linguistic unit of a pronunciation, whereby the word can also be recorded in writing, but without pronunciation or rather as mute non-pronunciation.

Das Wort andererseits ist eine kleine oder kleinste selbständige sprachliche Einheit von Lautung, wobei das Wort auch schriftlich, jedoch ohne Lautung resp. als stumme Nichtlautung festgehalten werden kann.

Therefore, the word is a linguistic and also a written expression with a certain "meaning content" which determines the language and the written language as small or smallest part. ...

Also ist das Wort eine sprachliche und auch eine schriftliche Äusserung mit einem bestimmten Bedeutungsgehalt, das als kleiner oder kleinster Teil die Sprache und die Schriftsprache bestimmt. ...

FIGU Switzerland, March 2010

FIGU Schweiz, im März 2010

Translated by Christian Frehner and Willem Mondria

--βενιαμιν 20:27, 18 July 2012 (BST)

Markvd said ...

A long challenge to victory indeed. It seems English is the main language spoken worldwide and understood. It would take a ecliptic event to change Earth humanity to the German language. If victory is dependent on knowledge, knowledge can only be known if it is undertood by all people. Maybe Earth can create a new language or use the German language to spread the teachings.

--Markvd 02:21, 19 July 2012 (BST)

Alive said ...

Thank you well, Benjamin Stevens. Now I could see the context. Ptaah, on behalf of the committee, was recommending mister Billy and core group members ("you from the Mother Center") to stop translating mister Billy's literary works into any terrestrial language (not only English), since many times (not always) the original sense of the German expressions, words, and terms used by mister Billy in his literary works have no synonym in other terrestrial languages. Sometimes, in the absence of the required synonyms, the translators exchanged the expressions, words, and terms used by mister Billy with the expressions, words, and terms from other terrestrial language, which do not represent the same concept or the same sense mister Billy tried to convey.

Ptaah mentioned some things about English because there is an English version of Kelch der Wahrheit, which to him contains inadequate translation values (I really do not understand what the Hell "translation value" is). So Ptaah's comment on English in the context of Contact Report 487 should be seen in its relation to the translation of Kelch der Wahrheit into English. If only RemR gave a faint indication about this, I would not be surprised, but RemR wrote his message in a certain way that gave an impression (to me, if not to all readers) that Ptaah commented on the translation of any German text into English text in general, no matter who the author is. Only later I found that Ptaah's comment concerns with mister Billy's German text only.

Since I have read the excerpt of Contact Report 487, I could say that, first, Ptaah did not say that English is like a child's language. He only said that English is a meagre (or poor, or lousy) means of communication used as a halfway acceptable auxiliary world language. Second, Ptaah recommended mister Billy and the core group members to stop translating mister Billy's literary works into any terrestrial language, not only into English. And third, RemR's message (dated 11 July 2012) does not properly reflect the text and the context of Ptaah's comment (dated 3 February 2010) on German to English translation.

---- M -- 13:16, 19 July 2012 (BST)

Benjamin Stevens said ...

I have a feeling that it was the German-speaking person at the Center in Switzerland who added that English is more of a child's language. I know for certain that the people who are regularly working on officially approved English translations for FIGU constantly bash the English language and speak of its absolute inferiority as compared to the German language. It does seem that they get this mentality from the Plejaren, as any time the Plejaren speak of the English language, they never seem to have anything positive to say about it. I'm sure many German-speakers at the Center, who can't speak English much or at all, have the same mentality about English simply because it's what they hear others say on a regular basis. I, for one, have learned not to care much about what the Plejaren or those at the Center have to say about the English language. I'll still try to reflect everything that is written as best as possible in English and as best as I can. The thing is, about 1.5% or so of the world's population can speak German, whereas about 27% or so can speak English. So if the Plejaren really want their message to affect a large part of the world, they're going to have to cope with the fact that it needs to be given in English, since affecting 27 out of every 100 people is far more significant than affecting 1 out of every 100 people. That's how I see it, anyway.

--βενιαμιν 18:58, 19 July 2012 (BST)

Alive said ...

The Pleiarens conveyed their messages through Contact Reports, which are not mister Billy's literary works. Ptaah's recommendation does not include the Contact Reports, so it could be assumed that it is allright to translate them into English and other terrestrial languages (although I am not sure if it is allright to translate them into Swahili). So far, I have not found Ptaah's objection on the translation of Contact Reports, and I notice that you have a written permission from mister Billy to translate them.

Since you have been translating Contact Reports into English, you have been thinking about the German expressions, words, and terms of them more intense than anyone on Earth (Hell, than anyone in DERN, if I could say it), and have been trying to reproduce the senses of the expressions, words, and terms of them through selected English expressions, words, and terms harder than anyone else. Your opinion about the translation of Contact Reports into English is worth to be considered (by me, if not by all human life forms). When it comes about the translation of mister Billy's literary works into English, I could only say that I have no courage to express my thoughts and feelings about it. I am coward.

---- M -- 20:28, 19 July 2012 (BST)

HoseinHomanMahmoudHamazBarakJubeiJubaJamba said ...

You like Phil Collins?

I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980s album, Duke.

Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. It was too artsy.. too intellectual. It was on Duke where a.. Phil Collin's presence became more apparent. I think "Invisible Touch" is the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding 3 albums. Alive, take off the robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Benjamin Stevens, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, and sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Benjamin Stevens, why don't you a, dance a little.

Take the lyrics to "Land of Confusion". In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. "In Too Deep", is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogomy and commitement. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive.. affirmative as a, anything I've heard in Rock. Alive, get down on your knees so Benjamin Stevens can see your @ssh0le. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial, and therefore more satisfying in a narrower way, especially songs like "In the Air Tonight" and "Against All Odds". Benjamin Stevens, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think, Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist; AND I stress the word, "artist". This is "Cecilia", a great song - a personal favourite.

--HoseinHomanMahmoudHamazBarakJubeiJubaJamba 00:11, 20 July 2012 (BST)

RemR said ...

Excuse me please, HoseinHomanMahmoudHamazBarakJubeiJubaJamba, sir. Or ma'am. Whoever you are. You must certainly be the same person who hides behind various silly, juvenile and, really, primitive names such as 'Newb Slayer', 'Troll Era' and 'Abe Finkelstein'. Lurking around here like a true internet troll, with all the attention-craving comments you post, which are full of provocative discord and senseless backstabbing attacks against people you don't even know, over the internet... a person acting like this in real daily life (in person - not over the internet) could probably qualify for being diagnosed with a pathological psychotic mental disorder of some kind. Even if you aren't behind these aforementioned names, this comment above is absolutely unnessecary. No Phil Collins. No relevance. Just strange. Haha.

--RemR 03:06, 20 July 2012 (BST)

Benjamin Stevens said ...

Well, at least HoseinHomanMahmoudHamazBarakJubeiJubaJamba attempted to personalize the message by including specific names of people involved on the thread. It's more effort than what I'm used to seeing from typical spammers. ;-)

--βενιαμιν 14:04, 20 July 2012 (BST)

Hawaiian said ...


You are correct in the assumption that German speaking people only represents 1.5% of the world's population and within this group, only a small percentage can truely grasp BEAM's writings because he added a significant amount of new German words because this language is also lacking in expressing the full potentials of this mission.

So in other words, it will take an English speaker a significant amount of time and effort to just utilize the basic German language must more in learning its true value in applying BEAM's materials.

There is a saying that a half full container is better than an empty one. There is some value in the English translation and the Plejarens have been known to be over bearing and unreasonable, so I would not agree on their accessment

--Hawaiian 17:09, 20 July 2012 (BST)