Above: the ET origin of the CSETI logo.

 "peace is impossible without truth" - CSETI Director Dr Steven Greer

Is THIS significant?

Below is a brief but informative correspondence between Vivienne and our CSETI coordinator. The first entry provides context.

Dyson's subsequent emails to CSETI can be read here.

From: "Raven" <reps@disclosureproject.org >
To: <reps@disclosureproject.org >
Cc: <dpreps@disclosureproject.org >
Subject: [DisclosureProjectReps] A request
Date: Wednesday, 16 March 2005 2:56 AM

Hi Everyone:
I am passing the word along to all of you that we had a meeting with Dr. Greer recently and it is now mandatory that whoever is a Disclosure Rep needs to also become a CSETI member. A good portion of you already are, but for those of you who are not, you will need to set that up. Debbie will be sending out a follow up e-mail to help you with that. In order to fully understand the ET reality it is important to understand the concepts put forth in CSETI. Also there is a message list that people can exchange ideas on. We want to keep the DP list reserved for exchanging ideas related to presentations and other networking info.

Thank you for all of your efforts and good work.


Raven Killidar
DP reps coordinator

(Debbie wrote - 4 hours later)

Thanks, Raven

For the DP reps who are not CSETI members yet, membership information is
on the CSETI web site at:
http://www.cseti.org/members.html  and
has the options for membership levels.

CSETI members and the member's email list are a great resources..
We even have a couple of the DP witnesses on there.

You also become a member  if you get a training kit or attend a CSETI

Let me know if you have any questions.




gaiaguys@nor.com.au wrote:
 Name on Credit Card: Vivienne F Legg
 Visa or Master Card Account number: xxxxx(deleted for security)
 Expiration Date: 11/05
 Amount Paid (US Dollars): $ $80.00
 Telephone Number:  -
 Vivienne Legg & Dyson Devine
 775 Upper Coldstream Rd
Tyndale 2460
 New South Wales


Thanks Vivienne and Dyson!

We appreciate your support! We really need DP reps to be members and
read the membership materials and understand more of what the
organization is about, and what they're committing themselves to and
connecting with.

I'll be sending out the membership packets and CSETI information in the
next few days.

The credit card charge on your statement will say Disclosure Project,
but it's for the CSETI membership.

Take care,

Debbie Foch


From: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
To: "Debbie Foch" <coordinator@cseti.org >
Cc: "Michael" <michael@theyfly.com >
Subject: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Saturday, 23 April 2005 2:19 PM

Hi Debbie, (Vivienne here)

re: "the rigor of science" and "peace is impossible without truth"

As you know we've just now gotten around to checking out the CSETI members-only material as a result of the Disclosure Project requiring its representatives to be members. It's hard to imagine we've been promoting the DP for over three years now(!) So far it seems that we haven't really learned anything more from the CSETI material than we had understood from reading Extraterrestrial Contact, which of course we read and gratefully devoured at the start. We had hoped to discover now that there had been significant relaying of information from the ETs that you were keeping from the wider public for some strategic reason. Did we miss something? I must share my thoughts with you, and I sincerely hope you'll consider them in the spirit I am offering them. (I know Dyson will also be communicating much of this to you as well.)

As you know, we have been, and we remain, extremely impressed with the Disclosure Project material because of its sheer breadth, depth, corroborative and scientific value and what it reveals about the Earthly power bases at work playing a huge role in holding back our evolution. We remain frustrated and baffled that people continue to ignore and neglect it. We remain extremely grateful for all the effort that Steven and the rest of you have put into it, feeling often moved to tears as we have attempted to share it with people on our handful of information nights and many, many hours standing at markets with our publicity fliers. We have a great deal of sympathy for the position you have all been in because of our own long term whistle blowing work. We know how unbelievable such revelations are for many people. We know how lonely it is and we know about the ridicule and the corruption of the media. We know about lack of support and lack of resources! We also know about the extreme importance of persisting.

Right now we are entering a pretty intense phase in our own efforts to expose those shadowy networks (the same ones, it seems) who are not only subjecting children to horrific ritual abuse here in Australia but are occupying various top positions in Australian Government, media , business etc, as they are elsewhere. www.gaiaguys.net/EOCV.BracksHullsSzoke.htm 

You may be interested to know that there have been two instances that we are aware of in which activists trying to expose these people in relation to child ritual sexual abuse have had phony ET abduction experiences, the timing demonstrating that the intention was to terrify and discredit these people. This of course adds to Steven's assertion that the hoaxed abduction phenomenon is connected to "fringe religious groups" and involves horrifying schemes that the ordinary person can not imagine because of the degree of depravity.

We're now actually starting to deal with these people directly in that they are launching audacious legal actions against us, which actually is helping us demonstrate that they aren't just our head noises(!). Anyway, it is largely because of our experience that we were able to appreciate and accept the information revealing the extraordinary machinations behind the scenes controlling this topic and understand that that, in large part, is the value of the Disclosure Project revelations. We did buy several copies of your books and studied them well, as you would hope. We have always striven to relay the information exactly as it is and have been dismayed and incredulous at the apathy and lack of concern for this from others. We have frequently thought how maddening it must be for Steven and the rest of the core team to come up against this. This leads me to the crux of my issue.

While absolutely sticking by what I have just written and reassuring you that we will continue to promote the enormously valuable wealth of corroborated, document-supported evidence that is the Disclosure Project, I can not imagine a sensible reason why CSETI has completely neglected the Meier case and it's wealth of evidence and information about, and provided by, extraterrestrials -" the best available evidence proving ETI presence" - evidence and information which can be logically scrutinized, tested, and studied, and which provides a breathtaking depth of intelligent teaching on that most important topic of spiritual reality and evolution - the spiritual evolution we need to be able to have in order for those meaningful relationships with extraterrestrial friends and relatives to occur with ordinary citizens, and in the shorter term, to save our planet from this escalating destruction. You claim CSETI is at the forefront of real time UFO research. Well, not without studying Meier's case, you're not. www.theyfly.com  www.figu.org

Have you read the bits and pieces of commentary provided just in the last couple of month by the Plejaren extraterrestrials to Billy? www.gaiaguys.net/specialbulletin16.htm 

Have you, for instance, discussed the little (110-120cm) light green "corrosive" (six-fingered) ET people who visited Switzerland early this year and left their hand prints etched deeply into the paintwork of Meier's son's car? http://www.figu.org/de/figu/bulletin/50/aetzender-besuch.htm

We are also very concerned and disappointed that Michael Horn has had no response from you or Steven to his appeal for reason on this matter. Have we misunderstood? Have you misconceptions about the Meier case that the three of us can help clear up for you? CSETI claims to be on the cutting edge of this topic. Your stated goals and appeals for the highest, selfless efforts towards understanding and peace with our cosmic neighbors are very noble. And we have been very inspired and impressed with this. But now that we are quite familiar with the Meier case, having studied it for a couple of years we find CSETI extremely remiss. People coming to CSETI to learn the truth will be misled by your incomprehensible omission. Please let us know if we have misunderstood somehow. Are you aware just how much knowledge of all kinds is provided by Meier and the Plejaren and others through them including the enormous historic context of ET involvement you need to understand to get on the right track with relationships with ET? Are you aware of how much of it actually does correspond with CSETI's conclusions? What about the parts which don't? Are you avoiding it all, as we fear, not out of ignorance but because of resistance to its various unpalatable (to many) messages? Of course you know very well that liking or approving of information is secondary to scientifically examining it and acknowledging that it exists, and what it corresponds to in reality.

We sincerely want to assist CSETI in coming to know the Meier material so that all your good intentions can be enhanced by that wealth of knowledge and vice versa, but until you do that CSETI is lagging way, way behind and is seriously misleading those seeking the truth. We know that you have had really powerful close encounters. (Meier's core group has had craft of various kinds photographed right in the yard. Really, at times it's like grand central station over there!) But unless we're mistaken, you have not yet been provided with say, OM - The Book of Truth which, in our judgment is exactly what the Plejaren say it is - logical, spiritual (non-perfect) teaching relayed once again in uncorrupted form for Earth humanity, not by gods or angels, but by spiritually advanced, but not perfect or elevated, teachers. This is no "New Age mushy-mindedness". Have you read my introductory articles for English-only readers? www.gaiaguys.net/GodsHuman.htm  OM is in German as is a great deal of Meier's Plejaren-cultivated wisdom. Have you German-language people on your team? Have you received from your encounters, for instance, detailed astronomical information and data regarding nature catastrophes and predicted future political and natural events on Earth? And what about information about how many ET civilizations are occupied with Earth and who's aligned with who, and who is doing the crop circles, and so on? www.gaiaguys.net/ptaacropcs.htm  (This one quotes Steven.) Meier has enormous detail about why there is the ET resistance by religion, something Steven touches on only very peripherally. It is dynamite.

Debbie please do get back to us on this. The Meier material is so immense, wise and intelligent and shines so much light on our Earthly situation at so many levels that we will be increasingly promoting it above all else, but not to the exclusion of all else. Michael Horn, at Dyson's urging has had the good sense to provide a link to the Disclosure Project from his web site, recognizing the value of all that corroborative testimony and government documentation, ignored by so many UFOlogists who have various agendas to protect. It's of enormous value for those who can't see why one "Swiss Farmer" should be "believed" and it sheds light on how and why that case has been so cleverly distorted and twisted by the powers that be. Meier's case is very well presented for the English world by Michael. Do you own a copy of And Still They Fly? As I said, it goes way beyond what CSETI has so far and can immediately be shared with everybody. We know you have a copy of Michael's DVD, which you said was "very interesting". Has Steven seen it yet?

In the name of attempting to provide the uncensored available truth about our extraterrestrial visitors we will be morally obliged to point out CSETI's omission to the traffic that comes to our site. It is the only rational, honest approach for us. As I said, we will continue to give the Disclosure Project prominence on our increasingly popular site, as we have consistently done since we discovered it. If CSETI doesn't include the Meier case in its study and presentation and give it the prominence it deserves then I will have to withdraw my support and membership, and formal DP representative status.

We know that your focus is on real time, face to face, citizen-ET contact, but your title, Centre for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, implies a far broader definition, which cannot, in the name of science and openness, and being "Dedicated to the Furtherance of our Understanding of Extraterrestrial Intelligence" leave out the Plejaren.

Peace in Wisdom, (as we Meier supporters like to say).


From: "Debbie Foch" <coordinator@cseti.org >
To: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
Cc: <reps@disclosureproject.org >
Subject: Re: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Saturday, 23 April 2005 3:12 PM

Hi Vivienne,

We are teaching people to do the contact work for themselves and not
rely on other people. The Billy Meier materials aren't appropriate for
us to use as witness materials in the Disclosure project since we are
using only military and government witnesses.

I can see why you must think we're so behind in CSETI. Have you actually
had ET encounters yourself, though?
Have you read any of the members section of the web site? Have you
discussed ET encounters with other members on the message board?

Dr. Greer has the DVD that Michael Horn sent, but I haven't gotten a
chance to talk to him about it since we've been dealing with other
issues and he lives 150 miles away from me.

I understand if you both want to withdraw your membership and DP reps
status. I agree that would be best.
I can give you a partial refund.

Take care,


From: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
To: "Debbie Foch" <coordinator@cseti.org >
Cc: "Michael" <michael@theyfly.com >
Subject: Re: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Sunday, 24 April 2005 9:48 AM

Dear Debbie,

Thank you for getting back to me.

We're not suggesting, nor does Meier, that people continue to rely on others for ET information and contact. On the contrary. The sooner we are all mature enough to experience this the better. Individual responsibility is a principle teaching of the Plejaren and Meier. What we are saying is please don't wilfully ignore the available information that a far more advanced individual has already gained this way for the benefit of all of Earth humanity, and which reflects profoundly on your undertaking.

From my email you will see that I know what the Disclosure Project is for and promote it as such. I didn't ask you to include the Meier material in the DP package. It is CSETI as a whole, The Centre for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, to whom I appeal to include this material.

Our top priority is to promote peace, wisdom, knowledge, love, truth and understanding on Earth and with our cosmic neighbours. We do not assume that we personally would serve this purpose best by having one-on-one ET encounters. If they thought differently, I'm sure they'd let us know. After-all, they know who we are and where we live. The available wealth of information provided by ETs needs to be shared and studied and acted on as a priority. Does a U.S. diplomat for China turn up to meet Chinese officials without having studied the available information about their culture and the historic background to the relationship? Of course not. How irritating it must be for ET people to have provided so much and to have those who seek peaceful relationships with them simply ignore it in favour of having a one-on-one.

I can only assume you really do feel that the real time experience is more valid over all. Perhaps such a special experience makes it hard to take an overview. I admit, it sounds very appealing. As a matter of simply working physically closely with Meier on the task of getting Meier's information out, many FIGU members and visitors to the Centre in Switzerland have had very close encounters with the various craft that come by. But, it is understood, that these ET people get out and meet Meier, or he gets in and they meet, because he has the very long term training, maturity, responsibility, wisdom, perspective, lack of egotism and the very great burden associated with receiving what, as you know, is extremely sensitive material. There are logical reasons for this approach that become more apparent as one studies the material.

Yes, we have read the members section of the CSETI website. What have the ETs said to you? Who are they exactly?

Since your intention seems to be to pursue one on one Earthling -ET relationships in isolation of the bigger picture you really should reflect that intention in the name of your organisation.

What about simply a link to the Meier case, so that people can judge for themselves? We're pleased that you have one to the Crop Circle Connector.

I know Dyson is still studying your lists, does NOT want to lose his DP rep status, and, if I may, I'll take another look in the spirit of being better informed.

Best wishes,

From: "Debbie Foch" <coordinator@cseti.org >
To: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
Subject: Re: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Sunday, 24 April 2005 10:10 AM

Thanks, Vivienne,

I'll consider putting a link to the Meier web sites. We don't link to
many sites. We have one to the crop circle web site because of ET
contact research in crop circles in the past (and hopefully again in the

My ET contact experiences have been in the dream state, and during
meditations, as well as some high strangeness events.
A lot of CSETI members are able to remote view onboard craft and
interact with the beings onboard. I haven't done that yet, as far as I
know. We've seen triangular craft fly over our group at orbital
altitudes but very large, and many other interactive events.
We haven't had physical onboard experiences (Dr. Greer did when he was
younger) but sometimes there are experiences of bilocation or a craft
being on the ground with us but dematerialized around us yet some of the
parts of the craft are visible through their high energies (they look
like glowing/pulsing astral energies). It's not safe for the ETs to
land and interact with us due to the military's sensor network and laser
and particle beam weapons that shoot them down. For now, it's a matter
of us learning to interact with them on this subtle energy and
consciousness level, and they show up more physically when they can by
flying fast through the sky or other ways. The chapter in the ET
contact book about the Night Time phenomena (some things aren't always
at night, though) has a list we compiled as of 1999 - it's still pretty
good - probably could add a few things when we get a chance.

We're promoting the team concept (as described in the membership
packet), and these teams around the world initiating contact.
We need to take this to the next level, beyond individual contacts and
individuals who bring back messages. We're learning how to interact with
the ETs and understand the nature of their reality and the cosmology.

Take care,


From: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
To: <coordinator@cseti.org >
Cc: "Michael" <michael@theyfly.com >
Subject: Re: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Monday, 25 April 2005 4:49 PM

Dear Debbie,

Thanks for your consideration about a link and for providing more detail about the CSETI experiences.
I hope to do more with this in the future.

Best wishes,

From: "Debbie Foch" <coordinator@cseti.org >
To: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
Subject: Re: "peace is impossible without truth"
Date: Monday, 25 April 2005 5:03 PM

Thanks, Vivienne,

Take care,


From: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au>
To: "Raven" <reps@disclosureproject.org>
Cc: <csetimembers@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: message from Vivienne
Date: Monday, 30 May 2005 4:06 PM

Dear Raven, Debbie, and CSETI members,

Vivienne here . For those who don't already know, I'm Dyson's other half.

Sadly, this is my first and last posting to the CSETI list.

Raven's message asking us to step down as DP reps was not unexpected, of
course, but we have a few points that need airing in the spirit of moving
forward. (I was not intending to remain a rep actually, since I can't
support CSETI any longer.) Firstly, we have been pushing Meier for almost as long
as we have the Disclosure Project. This is the first time anyone of you have
raised that as a problem. Of course we have not been promoting Billy Meier
as DP reps. But your grievance with us over Meier concerns more than
what could be fixed by some clarification on our website.

It is only recently that we became aware of how hostile CSETI is to the
Meier case, requiring that we challenge this position. Of course we didn't
expect that to be entirely welcome. I want to take the opportunity here to
reiterate that our actions regarding this have been to try to get CSETI to
understand what it is doing, to help people understand what the Meier case
really is, and why rejecting the Meier case is very unwise and unscientific.
We have not wanted to harm or annoy CSETI or the Disclosure Project.
Unfortunately CSETI has done this for itself. And it apparently remains
quite ignorant of the content of the Meier case, despite taking this
position against it.

You too naturally have a right to do what you choose, but in the name of ET
enlightenment we cannot let the hypocrisy go unnoticed. (We have recently
read all the CSETI information about itself, as a result of the compulsory
membership.) Given all the discussion regarding Meier with Debbie and on the
CSETI list it is rather odd that this is the first time CSETI's objection to
has been made so unambigously.

After all, we were led by Debbie to believe that a link might be made to it
on the CSETI web site, and that it was "very interesting". We're glad that
CSETI's position has now been made clear.

And yet, no-one has said on what grounds Meier's case has been rejected.

What are the objections? Are they scientific?

Please try to understand that the Centre for the Study for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence is thwarting the promotion of just that by obstructing
knowledge of Billy Meier's case, which does provide the necessary scientific
foundation for rational investigation of the information the Plejaren and
others provide through them. As we have said repeatedly, like it or not, the
bigger picture is necessary for any smaller project to proceed in the right
direction. We are disturbed that CSETI seems intent on focussing on only
those elements of ETI that it likes, and then, as far as we can tell, with
little interest in applying the scientific method.

This is not science and it does not promote the truth.

We are also disappointed to find so little information available on the
website and on the list about what actually has been achieved by CSETI in
the past two or three years, and how the information has been processed.
After all, we assumed that this was what we were being forced to join in
order to learn.

We will continue to promote the Disclosure Project material, as we have
ceaselessly done since we learned of it, because it is scientific,
corroborative and of prime relevance to related projects and our future
survival. And we remain hopeful the CSETI will sooner, rather than later,
realise that it should at least alert people to the Meier case for the same

We wish you all the best.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Raven" <reps@disclosureproject.org>
To: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au>
Cc: "Debbie Foch" <dfoch@disclosureproject.org>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:23 AM
Subject: DP rep

> Dear Dyson and Vivienne:
> It has recently come to my attention that your website may contain
> information that may not necessarily be in line with what we are trying to
> accomplish with the Disclosure Project. You certainly have every right to
> do what you want, but we are concerned that it may misrepresent what the
> Disclosure Project stands for.
> Given that, if you want to continue your website with its current
> we ask that you please disassociate yourself with the Project. You have
> been reps for some time and I don't want to really have to do that, but
> after much discussion and then a number of complaints from the CSETI
> regarding your push of Billy Meier materials, we will have to ask you to
> please step down.
> I wish you all the best on your endeavors.
> Sincerely,
> Raven Killidar
> DP reps coordinator



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