Updated on April 22nd, 2006

From: "Raven" <reps@disclosureproject.org >
To: "gaiaguys" <gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
Cc: "Debbie Foch" <dfoch@disclosureproject.org >
Subject: DP rep
Date: Monday, 30 May 2005 5:18 AM

Dear Dyson and Vivienne:

It has recently come to my attention that your website may contain information that may not necessarily be in line with what we are trying to accomplish with the Disclosure Project. You certainly have every right to do what you want, but we are concerned that it may misrepresent what the Disclosure Project stands for.

Given that, if you want to continue your website with its current contents, we ask that you please disassociate yourself with the Project. You have been reps for some time and I don't want to really have to do that, but after much discussion and then a number of complaints from the CSETI members regarding your push of Billy Meier materials, we will have to ask you to please step down.

I wish you all the best on your endeavors.


Raven Killidar

DP reps coordinator

Dear Raven,


(I apologise for the delay in getting back to you with the below. I wrote it last week but wondered whether I should even send it. Time will tell, I suppose. When in doubt I usually chose in favour of communicating as opposed to inscrutable silence.)


I almost automatically start my replies to people by thanking them for their email, and it makes me uncomfortable that my customary opening is so inappropriate now. You do not know how important it was to be able to write that I am an Official Representative in my many hundreds of letters to people who need to know about the DP. You will probably not live to fully understand how much damage you’ve done to your stated goals by cutting yourselves off from the easily scientifically demonstrable truth. I’m very very very sorry that this has happened, but I’m not asking for my job back, only making quite certain that I don’t leave this level of your life with any more misunderstandings than are apparently necessary under the unfortunate circumstances.  


I greatly value straight talk but – as the ancient and long forgotten Earth saying goes, “Talk is leaves. Acts are fruit.”


You wrote, "... we ask that you please disassociate yourself with the Project." "disassociate"  Are you serious? Please elaborate.


I hope we can agree that The Big Picture proves that the Disclosure Project is an inconceivably important program which uniquely towers above all other (terrestrial) ET enlightenment initiatives. I think its importance cannot be overstressed, and we (sorry – “you”) should bear in mind that the conduct of the CSETI, the DP and SEAS should be a beckoning example to our ET friends of how enlightened Earth humans should behave to each other as well as towards those who are now just starting to warily approach us from the depths of outer space. This seems self evident. Similarly, the heart of this matter is obviously the highjacking of our precious and hard-won democracies by unaccountable secret criminal cabals and their myriad secret servants, whose organizations go back to year dot and are closely connected with the topic of ETI whether you believe it or not. (See Crandall on Freemasons/vacuons!)


As Vivienne said, until yesterday’s brusque dismissal, all we had heard from Debbie was that she was still considering our request (not demand) that CSETI provide a link to Earth’s (scientifically demonstrable) one-and-only, present-day, formally mandated, amalgamated ET contact initiative. And Debbie had watched the DVD we arranged for Michael Horn to send Dr Greer, told us it was “very interesting”, and had passed it onto him, (but didn’t find out his reaction to it because he lived too far away.)


Then, out of the blue, you wrote: “It has recently come to my attention that your website MAY contain information that MAY NOT NECESSARILY be in line with what we are trying to accomplish with the Disclosure Project.” [My emphasis] And there have been “…a number of complaints from the CSETI members”. Who are these faceless people exactly and what is the exact nature of their complaints please? Were they properly investigated to see whether they were valid?


Returning to the idea of exemplary enlightened conduct, may I kindly remind you that a central plank in any civilization worthy of that designation is that a person accused of a wrongdoing is innocent until proven otherwise and – more importantly – he can face his accusers and learn the full extent of their denunciations against him?


But I’m in no position to expect basic human rights because basic human rights have always been denied Earth people, but now things are different. Instead of unconcealed blood-spattered despotism, we now have morally reprehensible diplomatic slimy legalese – unctuous facile sophistry and weaslewords to make black white and white black. Where morality defers to legality, Camp X-Ray is an accepted and publicly validated legal no man’s land beyond all moral accountability, (whose Orwellian motto is, “Our Sacred Duty to Defend Freedom”), egregious USAmerican torture can be outsourced to privatized Special Access Projects, and the moderator of the CSETI list can say, “Neither Debbie, myself, nor anyone else associated with CSETI have ever said that the Meier case is not valid …”, just a day after you told us, “…but after much discussion and then a number of complaints from the CSETI members regarding your push of Billy Meier materials, we will have to ask you to please step down.”


You may have it both ways if you insist, but only in your dreams. This does not cut any ice with the ETs and it doesn’t cut any ice with me either. You should hang your heads in shame. History will deal unkindly with you.


On March 16th you wrote, "Also there is a [CSETI] message list that people can exchange ideas on. [because] We want to keep the DP list reserved for exchanging ideas related to presentations and other networking info." But what was the reason we were sacked? "... complaints from the CSETI members regarding your push of Billy Meier materials."  And far from a being a related to the "in depth analysis of all aspects of ETI studies", not to mention "ideas", some weeks later we are informed, "We (the moderators) want to refocus the discussions, as Charlie said, and keep things on the CSETI related subjects. " "... the website and the list are here to help promote CSETI and its philosophy, we'd like to keep the discussions centered on what we're trying to do." What you are trying to do is NOT "in depth analysis of all aspects of ETI studies". Meier is not a belief system or an idea. Meier is the ETs public Earth contact person. Put yourself in ET's shoes. Do please look at the scientific evidence and prove it for yourself. If you accept the validity already, what's the problem? If you don't know that yet, I'm forced to ask the same question.


Unhappily for the ignorant hubris of the Earth humans, there is actually a rough analogy between how advanced Earth humans perceive dirty, dangerous and degenerated domesticated animals, and how these highly advanced ET humans perceive us. We must first learn what ETs have to teach, and act accordingly, before we can individually arrogantly expect anything similar to what we've been given already in Switzerland. We all had to first learn to drive before we got out into traffic.


As stated above, we accept the DP as almost inconceivable important, and we substantiate that assertion by having spent almost all our savings almost single-handedly organizing more info nights than any other reps, even when we knew that advertising public gatherings in distant regional centres was an open invitation to the thieves who did indeed break into and steal from our house, and we used the insurance money not to replace our stolen goods but to further promote the DP. After finding out that newspaper advertisements for our info nights were not cost efficient, we spent many many hours driving hundreds and hundreds of miles and standing in the hot sun handing out scores of thousands of A4 info leaflets, confidently telling (as directed by HQ) interested people that as soon as we had organized a venue, they would learn the details on the DP website, only to have our repeated entireties to HQ for the promised notice ignored, and numberless people never found out about our efforts because of that.


And now we're sacked. Scandalous.


Six weeks ago Vivienne wrote, “In the name of attempting to provide the uncensored available truth about our extraterrestrial visitors we will be morally obliged to point out CSETI's omission to the traffic that comes to our site.” That correspondence was subsequently published here www.gaiaguys.net/CSETI.htm and Michael Horn is already labouring on publicly exposing the loathsome hypocrisy of your organization whose actual conduct is greatly at odds with its public statements about itself. You asked for it. Nobody can be as hostile to the truth as you are without serious ramifications. And I, and innumerable others you have not met, are very opposed to people who are hostile to the truth.


We are told that CSETI is not obliged to do the Meier material. Oh yes you are. You are in fact legally obliged to do what you tell your paying members you do.


Please forgive me if you think my tone is inappropriate. I’m only human. (And when will the DP stop anachronistically implying that humanity is confined merely to Earth?)


Peace in love/wisdom,


From: "Charlie Balogh" <c.balogh@mchsi.com >
To: <gaiaguys@nor.com.au >
Cc: "Debbie Foch" <coordinator@cseti.org >; <Zoner711@aol.com >
Subject: Re: Dyson
Date: Saturday, 11 June 2005 4:33 PM

Dear Dyson and Vivienne,

It is obvious that your beliefs and intentions are not compatible with those of CSETI. It is also apparent that we will not be able to resolve the issues to the satisfaction of either side, and it is not beneficial
for either side to prolong this situation any longer than necessary. We are therefore refunding part of your membership fees. The remaining part we retain for the cost of materials delivered. You will be removed from
the email discussion list and the members section of the CSETI web site

We wish you the best in your endeavors, wherever they may lead.

Charlie Balogh


We wonder whether this Charlie would be wishing us the best in our endeavors if he understood that we are endeavoring to publicly  expose CSETI's criminal fraud.




 Please DO support the Disclosure Project.

Please DO NOT support CSETI!






Back to our main CSETI exposé page


Please read Vivienne's major article entitled "WHAT CSETI NEEDS TO KNOW"


Back to homepage